Wednesday, November 16, 2005

Forbidden Love


This piece of news really caught my eyes..

Read on..

"For Jessie Chung and Joshua Beh, it is also the start of their problems. In the eyes of the law and religion, they are not yet wife and husband.

Chung, who was born a male and had undergone a sex change operation three years ago, and Beh held their wedding reception for some 800 friends and relatives in Kuching, Sarawak, last Saturday. (this wedding reportly has cost the couple more than RM 1 million!!!!)

Malaysian laws do not allow its citizens to change their gender in their identity cards despite having gone through a sex operation, according to Home Affairs Minister..

...Chung's adopted brother Brian Choot, who coordinated the wedding, said the couple was prepared to migrate if the situation did not permit them to live as husband and wife."

The whole story on the marriage as well as the government/church's remark was reported in The Star.



The news certainly going to be the talk of the town, at least for another month..I was pretty amazed of marriage between Jessie & Joshua that was well publized in this country, which always tries to uphold Eastern culture..no, i'm not saying blaming the government for being strigent with rules on marriage or the couple, at least not yet..

I'll reserve my opinion for now..but would like to hear your point in this..Remember we are juggling between culture, morality, personal choice, democracy etc here..


34 comments:

Keshi said...

me first yeyyy...yeyy...yeyyy :)


I dun think this is a case of forbidden love..it's forbidden identity isnt it? Honestly I dunno what goes inside ppl who want sex changes, but I dun condemn either...if they want to do it, let em and if someone fall sin love with em, then let em get married...what's culture, morality and democracy got to do with this? This is just a case of personal choice...and I think being a democratic country, the law shouldnt mess with ppl's freedom in marriage...


Keshi.

Me said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Pallavi said...

i would agree with keshi. and totally true about gov't not meessing with marriage.

Vanathi said...

different post...

southpaw said...

Good post, lemme come read it properly and come back...:)

visithra said...

I think the marriage is sweet - gays go through a lot of problems first trying to understand themselves and tyring to except themselves given how society looks upon them.

Actually if you see hindu culture, temple sculptures theres always been indication of the he-she gender - we've just grown to see them as unnatural. I've got wonderful gay friends who go through the same ups and downs but maybe more.

If god can create unisex amebas don't u think they should exist too?

Arz000n said...

Few years back I was told abuot this sex change thingy, and someone told me that MJ did this. and then again reverted back to his original sex. I dont know how much of this is sure...but it depends on individual...

if he is happy...why to create a scene.

southpaw said...

Remember we are juggling between culture, morality, personal choice, democracy etc here..***i think the personal choice matters the most, if two individuals don't have any problem with that why shud the society and the government intervene and spoil their peace of mind.

strawy said...

i just dont understand y ppl go against nature.. anyways their call..
i think if any 1 wants to change sex n marry its their choice..
n i agree with keshu...

***@and I think being a democratic country, the law shouldnt mess with ppl's freedom in marriage...**

in norway its allowed to change sex n marry... even gays n lessis can marry ... and can adopt babies too

nice post am000nie , muahh babez , hugsssss


st000nie

PuNeEt said...

good one Amutha...

I wuld go with Keshi's thought...

I really dont understand why people go for sex change... ne ways all have their own choice to live...
so far they are happy... it doesnt matter who says what...

take care
Cheers

Łóòň Ġãĺ said...

that was an interesting piece of news!

novin said...

Goverment SHOULD interfere with our lives. IT is being up there TO interfere our lives.. .

Normal citizen would be anak ayam tanpa ibunya... havoxx... :-)

IF god wanted unisex people HE would have easily created a Human species in tha form... For HE is the one who created ameba :-)...

more comments.. on my web.. IF i ever post this news.. :-) .. hehehe :-)

tulipspeaks said...

@ keshi & pallavi

Honestly I dunno what goes inside ppl who want sex changes,

neither do I :)



if they want to do it, let em and if someone fall sin love with em, then let em get married...what's culture, morality and democracy got to do with this?

certainly it does..we live in a cultural society & there are cultural norms to be followed..we are social-animals, remember?



I think being a democratic country, the law shouldnt mess with ppl's freedom in marriage...

we need the government's involvement in our lives..at least to a certain extent..

for example, today, i heard a news about an elder sister living together with her younger brother and this "couple' have 4 kids together..don't you think government/religious bodies should step in? similarly in the case of Jessie (formerly Jeffrey) & Joshua, we need higher authorities to step in..

the government did not prison them for marrying against the nature..merely saying that it will NOT approve the marriage and will NOT grant them marriage cert.. i think this is fair enough..

and pallavi..i think the gov is not messing the ppl's life..in my opinion, they are messing up their own lives over here..

hugggsss

=am000nie=

tulipspeaks said...

@ vanathi

thanks for dropping by..do come again :)


hugssss

=am000nie=

tulipspeaks said...

@ visithra

If god can create unisex amebas don't u think they should exist too?

well..
1. ameobas are creatures that live w/out civilation..do we live in that manner?

2. ameobas are created to be unicellular..paramecium conjugates..these are low level animals..are we in such a low level of life too?

3. ameoba are created unicellular..but we aren't..if God wants us to live like ameoba, He would have created us unicellular as well..what is the purpose of having males and females then?

hugssss

p/s: ameobas are not exactly unisex, they are unicellular..consist of only 1 cell..thats why they don't possess any gamet..thus making them to reproduce asexually

=am000nie=

tulipspeaks said...

@ z000nie

if he is happy...why to create a scene.

if it doesn't interrupt the society's norm..and then it doesn't matter..but when it does..we need to question this..




@ south
if two individuals don't have any problem with that why shud the society and the government intervene and spoil their peace of mind.

simply because they live in the society & the society is regulated by the government


hugssss

=am000nie=

tulipspeaks said...

@ st000nie

in norway its allowed to change sex n marry... even gays n lessis can marry ... and can adopt babies too

i wonder if this is what we call a FAMILY??

don't you think the children are being deprived of a proper family institution?

these people who go against the nature, get married and live their life at one point yearn for children..and resort into adopting them..but what will happen to the children as they grow up? how are they going to introduce their "parents"? will they say something like "Hey, meet my papa & papa?"

one day, Jessie & Joshua might want to adopt kids too (of course they won't be able to do that in Malaysia)..won't the children suffer? will kids understand why their 'mother' is not actually a 'mother' after all??

hugsss babe ;)

=am000nie=

tulipspeaks said...

@ puneet

refering to my response to keshi & strawy..

it does matter what a person does, especially when it changes the values in a society..

hugsss



@ cheesy

yeap..surely a piece that caught my attention right away..

what is your stand in this?


hugsss


=am000nie=

tulipspeaks said...

@ novin

i should call this one of my rarest moment, where surprisingly i agree with novin (err..is this the first time?) on this issue..

IF god wanted unisex people HE would have easily created a Human species in tha form... For HE is the one who created ameba :-)...

exactly...i believe we are created by Him for a reason..and definitely the reason is not for us to marry indiscrimately with own gender etc..

hugsss

=am000nie=

novin said...

One more thing why goverment opposes such things .. when guys turn into gays ... they can reproduce... and when girls turn in guys and guys turning in to girls.. it REALLY effectrs the guy-girl ratio. In the long run.. if all guys turn into gays...... finish la this world... no more reproduction!... :-) .. might sound funny .. but think abt it..

One such case.. which have similar effects...

= In India , alot of parents are "killing" unborn GIRL babies.Last week NST paper had a long article on this matter.

No girl - NO production..

No guys to impregnant girl also means NO PRODUCTION.... :-)

Rohit Talwar said...

i would have written exactly what keshi has written if she didn't.

Mavida Lesbiana said...

Very interesting post, course, being a lesbian myself, I of course agree with keshi and others who say thatthe law should not mess with ppl's freedom in marriage. What harm does it do anyone if both people are of age, and it is what makes them happy. I honestly don't understand the sex change thing either, but I do know if I was uncomfortable in my own body I would be miserable, so I don't fault anyone for doing what they need to do to be able to be comfortable with themselves.

Nice blog you have here -

I'll be back.

PuNeEt said...

I dun agree with ur view point...

Society n all is scrap for me...

When u will actually need someone to be with u ... it wont be society for sure...

n government's intervention is only accepted if someone is doing something illegal...

n ways... thats my personal opinion...

Its just like
Live n let live

Cheers

musings (m000nie) said...

my opinion

live n let live...

Michelle said...

i think it is an individual's choice...i mean if they're happy wats the problem...i dun thinkanything shud stop them frm doin wat makes them happy

Jeevan said...

I also read this news in newspaper. i think this is there personal life.

Aho said...

I feel really sorry for them..
it's kinda sad..
I'm a law student in a UK university and I take Human Rights as one of my subjects.While I understand M'sia is a country that uphold high moral values and little room for a "shocking culture" like this..It's really sad..In HUman rights law, we learnt that it will breach the law if we discriminate transsexuals, same-sex couples..seems like M'sia still has a long way to go to recognise rights like this..but I think, if Jessie and Joshua really love each other, love will find a way..They had stated that they are ready to migrate to another country where transsexuals would be recognise, haven't they?
I really hope they can overcome this obstacle soon..They'll surely appreciate each other more..
p/s: sorry, you don't know me..I was interested in this piece of news when I saw this on internet..just so happened to be in ur blog
cheers

Divya said...

interesting post amutha..

Invincible said...

So jessica was a guy who changed his sex ?

Some countries has stringent laws and oppressive rules.
Even in the US, not all states have legalised gay/lesbian marriage.
I wonder how even sex change is permitted in the country which doesnt allow changing it on their IDs.

Dewdrop said...

Interesting I agree its none of Govts business to interfere in personal decisions but I wonder if a person changes his/her gender do they feel like that of the oppo gender. How can a person feel any diff than what they really were born as..Some food for thought I guess

tulipspeaks said...

@ novin

err..i have to read twice to understand what you have written..hehehe..yea, i got your point there




@ rohit talwar

well..then my reply to you will be similar to the one for keshi ;)



@ catalina

thanks for dropping by..

being a Muslim majority country, we do have certain limitation on one's freedom on sex/gender..but we must also congrats the gov for not harassing the couple..gov merely refused to acknowledge their marriage, not imprison them..although they can..


hugssss

=am000nie=

tulipspeaks said...

@ puneet

in a way, the couple should be grateful that the gov didnt prosecute them

marriage btwn same sex is illegal in M'sia..

i guess the gov is being very much considerative here..





@ m000nie

they are permitted to live in the country..i guess it is good enough..




@ michelle

the impact this marriage will cause on the others and society matters..let us wait and see what will jessie & joshua's union will lead to..

hugsss

=am000nie=

tulipspeaks said...

@ jeevan

it may be their personal life..but once they decided to make it public by calling the press themselves..then, the public also have the rights to talk about it




@ kellykool

M'sia is a country that uphold high moral values and little room for a "shocking culture" like this..

truly said..M'sia is a country where shocking behavior such as the union btwn jessie & joshua is unacceptable..and i think no revolution will take place in this country to legalized their union in near future

the marriage will stay illegal, may be throughout their lifetime..

btwn, i value your opinion very much & i hope you'll come back to this blog often..

thanks

hugsss

=am000nie=

tulipspeaks said...

@ divya

thanks dear

muuuaxxx and hugssss




@ invincible

I wonder how even sex change is permitted in the country which doesnt allow changing it on their IDs.

sex change is illegal in M'sia..just like the marriage..normally this type of surgery is done overseas..



@ dewdrop

nah..the gov not saying they cannot live together..gov do not interfere in personal life of non-Muslim citizens..

but, at the same time..the law do not permitt the marriage btwn same sex person or btwn those who have undergone sex change just like in this case

hugsss

=am000nie=